SOLI INV-I-CTO COMITI for Constantine

[Adriaan78]

I bought this coin for cheap along with a bigger purchase. I did not already have the Sol reverse with Sol holding the globe close to his body. However, I was wondering if this might be RIC 324 of 326 from Rome. I think it is impossible to say if busts seen from the reverse are cuirassed or not (and I know that more people heven the same opinion). Or is the coin from another serie with sol holding the globe close as both RIC 324 and 326 do not have a (confirmed) specimen from workshop P?  Thanks!

[Heliodromus]

Your coin has Sol standing right, head left, so the choice is between RIC 331 (LDR) and 334 (LDCR). RIC 324 & 326 are Sol standing left.

I think it made no sense for RIC to distinguish between LDR and LDCR, and this is not consistently done. I would have called them all LDCR.

On your coin the shoulder pteruges do appear to be visible, implying a cuirass, so I'd say this one is unambiguously RIC 334 (LDCR).

[Adriaan78]

Thank you very much Heliodromus. I was doubting as I thought it is his left elbow pointing out to the right and not a hand reaching out. Furthermore, the Ramskold auction also had a few examples for RIC 324 and 325 where the pose was called "standing front, but slightly turned to right". Example attached (not my coin). But maybe I am going into too much detail now...

[Heliodromus]

Sorry - I made a mistake. Your coin has Sol "standing right, head left", "holding globe close to body" (which means arm bent, elbow stuck out), which makes your coin RIC 340 (LDCR). RIC doesn't have an LDR bust for this type.

RIC's description of Sol's poses leaves a bit to be desired. There are basically two poses, either " standing left" or "standing right, head left", but RIC confuses things by footnoting the "standing left" description with "or facing, head left" which is unhelpful and should be ignored. Leu seem to have been confused by this which is why they call that LC bust variety RIC 325 (standing left) when it is actually RIC 339 (standing right, head left).

The only pose that deserves to be called (and looks like) "standing front" is the rare variant where Sol's face is frontal, not seen in profile to left or right, such as specimen below from Vienna.

[Heliodromus]

Just to clarify Sol's poses, the thing to pay attention to is his feet. We always see one foot in profile, and one foot front-on looking like a ball/blob.

When Sol is "standing left" his profile foot and face are pointing in the same direction.

When Sol is "standing right, head left" his profile foot and face are pointing in opposite directions.

[Adriaan78]

Thank you Heliodromus. I completely agree with your description of Sol's pose, it is finally clear to me. However, with RIC 339 and 340 the position of the globe is described as "across body". I could not find out an example but I think it means that the the left arm crosses the body with the globe ending up on the left. Love to see some examples.

The current order in RIC:

RIC 316 - 323 Sol standing left, holding up a globe
RIC 324 - 330 Sol standing left, holding globe close
RIC 331 - 338 Sol standing right, holding up a globe
After RIC 338:Sol standing right, holding globe close

From this I would say that my coin a the 2 examples from Ramskold should be after RIC 338 as the group "Sol standing right, holding globe close". Due to the fact that there only few examples of this pose this group did not make it into RIC.

[Adriaan78]

EDIT:
I found some example of RIC 339 and 340 on NOT IN RIC and I agree that the coin is RIC 340. However, the difference between "holding globe close" and "across body" is completely unclear to me.

[Heliodromus]

I don't believe there is any real difference between "holding globe close to body" and "holding globe across body".

Lech says the same thing on his p.389 notes:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/notInRic/cv6.html

I think in cases like this there may have been some very minor difference between specimens - same basic arm bent, elbow out pose, holding globe close to body, but in one case really close to body, and in another with a slight gap. It's probably a result of recording the coins, without photographs to go back and compare, before they had seen enough coins to realize the big picture and properly determine the "multiple choice" categories.

The RIC 339 & 340 listings reference specimens in Vienna which unfortunately they don't have online, but it's possible they may give a photo if you ask (Lech has been successful before, but maybe because of his famous Not In RIC site). I'd bet the Vienna specimens look the same as all the others!

[Nikko]

  ..and what about this Sol?
Standing left, head left or standing right, headl left? 

[Victor]

standing left...since it looks like the other leg is slightly bent.

[Heliodromus]

I agree.

The engraver needs some anatomy lessons though!