Author Topic: Constantine I SOL from Lyon with wolf and twins on shield  (Read 800 times)

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Offline Victor

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Re: Constantine I SOL from Lyon with wolf and twins on shield
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2021, 09:24:54 AM »
There is an example shown in Bastien (same coin as RIC from the BM), but it is even less clear. Hopefully in hand I will be able to tell for sure.

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Constantine I SOL from Lyon with wolf and twins on shield
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2021, 10:09:04 AM »
Here's a coin currently on eBay with similar wreath-decorated helmet, also from Lyons. Seller is asking EUR 500 OBO for it.

 


Same as Rome 318-319 (my recent helmet rant), RIC doesn't bother distinguishing helmet varieties, so this is RIC 134 with D2 bust, and can either have this archaic / Athenian helmet, or the "praetorian" decorated-browband helmet, which I think of as the "real" D2 bust.

 

Offline Victor

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Re: Constantine I SOL from Lyon with wolf and twins on shield
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2021, 10:38:05 AM »
it's a neat Crispus, but wildly overpriced...unless you are a rabid Crispus collector; which there are a few.

Offline Victor

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Re: Constantine I SOL from Lyon with wolf and twins on shield
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2021, 10:34:29 PM »
I finally got the coin, and it is indeed a wreath on the helmet and what looks like really elaborate wreath ties on either side.

I think my picture is a more realistic portrayal than the original auction photo (second pic below)



Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Constantine I SOL from Lyon with wolf and twins on shield
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2021, 09:02:10 AM »
That's a very sharp photo!

I think it may be some other form of decoration to each side of the wreath. The wreath ties appear to come to an end, and to left of the helmet it looks like it could be a branch. The thing to the right looks different.

One thing that bothers me about this type of Constantinian helmet is what they are actually meant to be. The other Constantinian helmets seem more clear-cut - the ridge helmet (appropriate to the period) on the VLPPs etc, and the Attic/Praetorian helmet typeically seen on the D2 busts (and also on Arch of Constantine).

I *think* these early helmets, such as on your Sol coin here, are meant to be Corinthian helmets, but its not 100% obvious.

Here's what a real Corinthian helmet looks like - really meant to cover the face:

 


But normally we see the helmet pushed back to top of head, as worn by Athena:

 


When pushed back like this it makes the helmet look a little bit as if it has a cap-like peak in front, but not really, and anyways on the Greek coins they always seem to depict the eye cut-outs so it's obvious what you are looking at.

 

 


On coins of Constantine such as yours, these peaked helmets are typically shown with the protruding peak joining a more bowl-like top at an angle, and I've never seen one with eye cut-outs depicted that would make it obvious it's meant to be a somewhat stylized Corinthian helmet.

Any opinion? Corinthian or not? I've not been able to find any other period-correct type of helmet with a peak like this.


Offline Victor

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Re: Constantine I SOL from Lyon with wolf and twins on shield
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2021, 09:54:52 AM »
I thought at first it was a [laurel] branch on each side, but the bottom of the wreath tie extends and it hard to distinguish where it might end and something else starts.

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Constantine I SOL from Lyon with wolf and twins on shield
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2021, 10:17:36 AM »
Here's the bowl-up detail from both your photo and the other specimen (same die).

 

 


Maybe it looks different in hand, but from the photo it looks like there's a gap between the wreath tie and "branch".