Author Topic: Crispus campgate from Constantinople  (Read 642 times)

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Offline Severus

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Crispus campgate from Constantinople
« on: December 17, 2020, 12:02:51 PM »
So I'm not a huge campgate collector but of course I have some, including one struck for Crispus at Constantinople mint. I understand that these are scarce relative to other campgates, due to some disagreement or other between Constantine and Crispus ( ;) ) around 326 when these were being struck. Would appreciate hearing comments from more knowledgeable collectors as to:

a) how rare or uncommon is this coin, really? I've had the coin about 10 years now and I don't believe I've ever come across another one. Like I said I don't collect these vigorously, but every once in a while I'll search vcoins or sixbid and have yet to see another. The coin is listed as quite rare in RIC VII but then again, what isn't. Is this a coin that you encounter with some frequency? My coin looks like it might be a reverse die match for the RIC plate coin.

b) is there a significant valuation premium attached to the coin? Asking because I paid only $27 for the coin in 2010, and this was a retail (properly attributed) purchase on vcoins -- even allowing for the not-great condition, seems inconsistent with its apparent scarcity. 

Not trying to be greedy or mercenary, but I like to know if a coin is or is not particularly valuable... Thanks in advance for comments!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 12:13:45 PM by Severus »

Online Victor

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Re: Crispus campgate from Constantinople
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2020, 12:47:03 PM »

They are rare, but turn up. Condition is always a factor in pricing. I sold this example on Vcoins a couple of years ago for $175.




Offline romeman

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Re: Crispus campgate from Constantinople
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2021, 12:11:51 PM »
Dear Severus and Victor,

These coins are indeed rare. I have collected them and images of them for some thirty years, and this is all that I have found: 8 officina A (including five in museum collections), and 10 officina B (including two in museum collections).

Early this year a paper by me was published in Numismatic Chronicle, where I discuss these coins. My conclusion was that the coins struck for Crispus were actively withdrawn when he fell from grace. Anyway, it’s all in the paper.

So Severus, you have a rare coin, with only three officina A on the market (known to me). You have one, I have one, and the third was sold by orgame on eBay 10 May 2012 (to Zenon M). Officina B is a bit more frequent, and a new specimen appeared this April on eBay, very poor, but I bought it. Your example is an obverse die match to the coin in Milan (Sabetta 195) and a reverse die match to the one in the Hunterian (published by Robertson).

As we all know, the value of these LRBs is usually determined by condition, not rarity. So although the Crispus coins from Constantinople are excessively rare, they usually don’t fetch more than other coins.

And Victor, many thanks for all the work you put into this forum. I and many others appreciate it!

/Lars

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Crispus campgate from Constantinople
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2021, 05:10:27 PM »
Hi Lars,
I have photos of a few additional specimens from eBay (all from 10+ years ago). The top one is my own.

The bottom coin, according to my records, was bought by yourself on eBay in 2-2009 (back when they still displayed user names), but doesn't seem to be on that graphic. Did you have reason to exclude it ?

Regards,
Ben

Offline romeman

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Re: Crispus campgate from Constantinople
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2021, 10:23:52 AM »
Dear Ben,

Many, many thanks! You made my day! Two of the Crispus coins are in the photo I posted, but three are new! Three new Constantinople Crispus in one day, I'm breathless!
The two I already have are:
Crispus CAES Providentiae Caess campgate star 2 beacons Constantinople 326 (RIC VII Constantinople 8 A R4) 18mm $15 unsold - eBay 10-2007. I bought this coin on eBay 18 Nov 2009, and my images differ from the sellers.
The second one is the last one that you posted, Crispus CAES Providentiae Caess campgate star 2 beacons Constantinople 326 (RIC VII Constantinople 8 B R4) 18mm 3.4g - eBay 2-2009. This coin is also in the photo I posted but my photos (below) differ quite a lot from the sellers'.
Next, I will die match the new coins and look for matches with the other Caesars' reverses.

When on the subject: I have a very large database of Constantinian coins. I am happy to share if I get requests. On my side, I am on a constant lookout for coins from the early Constantinopolis emissions. Ben, if you have photos that you can share of RIC 7-12 (also 16-21 except 19 - the SPES PVBLIC - unless of an example that has not been on the market; and also RIC 23 off A), I am grateful for any and all. Feel free to contact me on email (I think you have it?). Only if you feel like it and I respect if you prefer not to.
Best regards,
Lars

Online Victor

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Re: Crispus campgate from Constantinople
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2021, 10:58:35 AM »

two more


Offline romeman

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Re: Crispus campgate from Constantinople
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2021, 12:47:30 PM »
Dear Victor,

Many thanks for your kind help! The photos you just posted are the original ones of coins since cleaned. The off. A is the one sold by orgame to Xenon M, and I post his images below. The other one was sold by savoca to me, and I cleaned it. After the encrustations were removed, it looks rather different (I only clean mechanically, under a stereo. microscope, leaving the patina - which is part of the coin - but removing added material).

Both examples were in fact in my photo of all examples known to me, but not so easy to recognize.

Thanks again, I appreciate it!

Lars

Online Victor

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Re: Crispus campgate from Constantinople
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2021, 01:05:42 PM »

good job with the cleaning!

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Crispus campgate from Constantinople
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2021, 01:23:34 PM »
Agreed - awesome work on the cleaning !

Ben